From luc at saffre-rumma.net Fri Apr 1 11:22:07 2022 From: luc at saffre-rumma.net (Luc Saffre) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2022 14:22:07 +0300 Subject: [sinod] Thanks to all contributors Message-ID: <1f1ce24a-8313-4ad7-395a-ca0a575f9d31@saffre-rumma.net> Dear contributors, yesterday at 20:21 I submitted the final version (v18.pdf ) of our report to the official sinoditiim . The /respons?ible au?thors/ are Luc Saffre, Stiiv Knowers, Ingmar Kurg and Annely Neame. And 10 ?contributors? agreed to be named: Matthias Burghardt, J?r?gen Hein, Toomas J?rgenstein, Kadri Kesk?la, Kaimo Klement, Aleksander Koppel, Ivo Kruusam?gi, Jaan Lahe, Samuel Maikalu and William Straus. Already on Wednesday I had asked the sinoditalgutiim whether they support the report by disclosing their names to the public. And yesterday morning at least 20 other friends dropped into my mind who actually had /indirectly/ contributed to this document. I invited them to read the report as well and whether they would agree to be named publicly. Because every human who dares to publish their name increases the probability that our report reaches Rome. Some of them didn?t get my message, some had no time to read a 10 pages report, some read it and even found it very interesting, but didn?t feel like commenting on it, and some decided to support it by having their name published. And these people all ?love the Church as she is, despite all justified criticism, and want to help her on her synodal journey of seeking what is good and true.? I am especially glad that the list even contains two atheists. An important job is done! Thanks to all the people named above, but also to all those who prefer to remain ?incognito?. This project took me a lot of time and energy, but I also learned a lot. Just to give an example of the things we learned together, here is what I wrote to Ingmar and Stiiv after the third meeting: Enne magamaminekut panen veel kirja; See oli t?na ikka ajalooline p?riselu lugu: Luc ja Ingmar arutlevad sinodirapordi ?le. Seal oli lause ?The Bible isn?t perfect and it says so itself.? Ingmarile see ei meeldinud. Lucile aga meeldis. Arutlevad t?kk aega. Ingmar ?hvardas ?Kui see lause j??b, siis ma alla ei kirjuta!? Hiljemalt selt hetkel oleks Luc ju v?inud taibata, et lause l?heb minema, see pole ju Luci kiri paavstile, vaid eestlaste kiri. Mis ta ?ldse nii pikalt vaidleb. Aga selle asemel klapib ta oma arvuti kinni ja t?useb p?sti. Et see nii teatraalselt m?jus, ?llatas teda ise. Ta tegelikult oli ainult m?elnud, et n??d on ?ige hetk v?ikese pausi jaoks. Aga m?jus. Ingmar t?useb ka ja hakkab oma arvuti pakkima. N??d sai Luc aru, et v?iks hakkata hoog maha v?tma. Siis sai ta aru, et Ingmar tegelikult ei pannud oma arvuti kokku vaid v?ttis hoopis toitejuhe kotist v?lja. T?kk aega vaikus. Siis istusid m?lemad maja ja talgud l?ksid edasi. Stiiv istus kogu selle aja jooksul vaikselt nagu hiir. Luc v?ttis n??d l?puks oma armastatud lause maha. Pani ?The Bible needs explanation? selle asamel. Ja hiljem sai aru, et see on seal isegi veel ilusam. I have no idea how much of our work will reach Rome. The sinoditiim will now read all the reports that have been submitted during the consultation phase in Estonia and then synthesize them into a single 10 pages document. This will be fun. But I am not worried for the Pope. He will manage without us. Our work has already yielded so much spiritual result among those who contributed. The discernment phase will be fun because already now it is clear that our report is not representative for everybody in Estonia. One undisclosed contributor explained why he cannot yet support the document: Hei. Lugesin ja m?tlesin. Kui ratsionaalselt vaatan, siis on palju asju, millega tulen kaasa. K?ll oli mul raske v?tta omaks ?Suggestion: Step 4 - political role? punkte. Praegusel kujul on need mulle liiga ?hepoolsed. Raha ja t??stus v?ivad olla ka inimese s?brad ja teha maailmale palju head. Erasektor ei ole alati paha ja riik ei ole alati hea. Tihti on vastupidi. Samuti mulle n?ib, et Eesti inimene on k?ll ratsionaalne ja p?hjamaine. Aga ta vajab v?ga suuresti ka ?m?steeriumit?, mis on meie usu kese. Meie usu kese on Kristus ehk euharistia - paradoks, mis on m?istusega seletamatu. Seda saab ainult uskuda ja ise usus kogeda. Me peame r??kima kiriku ?petusest lihtsas keeles. Aga me ei tohi kaotada oma m?steeriumit, oma salap?ra, sest selles avaldub tegelikult t?de. Another undisclosed contributor answered with a comic of two pictures: * Christian rebellion in 1990: Son with sunglasses to dad with tie: No, Dad! I?m going to the cool church where they play electric guitar and wear shorts! Btw I?m getting rebaptized. * Christian rebellion today: Son with tie to dad with sunglasses: No, Dad. I?m returning our bloodline to the faith traditions that were observed and cherished by our ancestors ? traditions your once abandoned in the fruitless endeavour to make the Gospel palatable to the unspiritual masses. Btw TobyMac is cringe. The work job of the sinoditalgutiim is done, but as you can see, there is more work to do. We are not yet there. Pray for us! Luc Sharable permalink for this email: https://hw.saffre-rumma.net/blog/2022/0331_2021/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ingmar.kurg at gmail.com Fri Apr 1 11:38:39 2022 From: ingmar.kurg at gmail.com (Ingmar Kurg) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2022 14:38:39 +0300 Subject: [sinod] Thanks to all contributors In-Reply-To: <1f1ce24a-8313-4ad7-395a-ca0a575f9d31@saffre-rumma.net> References: <1f1ce24a-8313-4ad7-395a-ca0a575f9d31@saffre-rumma.net> Message-ID: Deo gratias! Kontakt Luc Saffre () kirjutas kuup?eval R, 1. aprill 2022 kell 14:22: > Dear contributors, > > yesterday at 20:21 I submitted the final version (v18.pdf > ) of our report to > the official sinoditiim > . > > The *respons?ible au?thors* are Luc Saffre, Stiiv Knowers, Ingmar Kurg > and Annely Neame. And 10 ?contributors? agreed to be named: Matthias > Burghardt, J?r?gen Hein, Toomas J?rgenstein, Kadri Kesk?la, Kaimo Klement, > Aleksander Koppel, Ivo Kruusam?gi, Jaan Lahe, Samuel Maikalu and William > Straus. > > Already on Wednesday I had asked the sinoditalgutiim > > whether they support the report by disclosing their names to the public. > And yesterday morning at least 20 other friends dropped into my mind who > actually had *indirectly* contributed to this document. I invited them to > read the report as well and whether they would agree to be named publicly. > Because every human who dares to publish their name increases the > probability that our report reaches Rome. > > Some of them didn?t get my message, some had no time to read a 10 pages > report, some read it and even found it very interesting, but didn?t feel > like commenting on it, and some decided to support it by having their name > published. And these people all ?love the Church as she is, despite all > justified criticism, and want to help her on her synodal journey of seeking > what is good and true.? > > I am especially glad that the list even contains two atheists. > > An important job is done! Thanks to all the people named above, but also > to all those who prefer to remain ?incognito?. > > This project took me a lot of time and energy, but I also learned a lot. > Just to give an example of the things we learned together, here is what I > wrote to Ingmar and Stiiv after the third meeting: > > Enne magamaminekut panen veel kirja; See oli t?na ikka ajalooline p?riselu > lugu: Luc ja Ingmar arutlevad sinodirapordi ?le. Seal oli lause ?The Bible > isn?t perfect and it says so itself.? Ingmarile see ei meeldinud. Lucile > aga meeldis. Arutlevad t?kk aega. Ingmar ?hvardas ?Kui see lause j??b, siis > ma alla ei kirjuta!? Hiljemalt selt hetkel oleks Luc ju v?inud taibata, et > lause l?heb minema, see pole ju Luci kiri paavstile, vaid eestlaste kiri. > Mis ta ?ldse nii pikalt vaidleb. Aga selle asemel klapib ta oma arvuti > kinni ja t?useb p?sti. Et see nii teatraalselt m?jus, ?llatas teda ise. Ta > tegelikult oli ainult m?elnud, et n??d on ?ige hetk v?ikese pausi jaoks. > Aga m?jus. Ingmar t?useb ka ja hakkab oma arvuti pakkima. N??d sai Luc aru, > et v?iks hakkata hoog maha v?tma. Siis sai ta aru, et Ingmar tegelikult ei > pannud oma arvuti kokku vaid v?ttis hoopis toitejuhe kotist v?lja. T?kk > aega vaikus. Siis istusid m?lemad maja ja talgud l?ksid edasi. Stiiv istus > kogu selle aja jooksul vaikselt nagu hiir. Luc v?ttis n??d l?puks oma > armastatud lause maha. Pani ?The Bible needs explanation? selle asamel. Ja > hiljem sai aru, et see on seal isegi veel ilusam. > > I have no idea how much of our work will reach Rome. The sinoditiim > will now > read all the reports that have been submitted during the consultation > phase in Estonia and then synthesize > them into a single 10 pages document. This will be fun. But I am not > worried for the Pope. He will manage without us. Our work has already > yielded so much spiritual result among those who contributed. > > The discernment phase will be fun because already now it is clear that our > report is not representative for everybody in Estonia. One undisclosed > contributor explained why he cannot yet support the document: > > Hei. Lugesin ja m?tlesin. Kui ratsionaalselt vaatan, siis on palju asju, > millega tulen kaasa. > > K?ll oli mul raske v?tta omaks ?Suggestion: Step 4 - political role? > punkte. Praegusel kujul on need mulle liiga ?hepoolsed. Raha ja t??stus > v?ivad olla ka inimese s?brad ja teha maailmale palju head. Erasektor ei > ole alati paha ja riik ei ole alati hea. Tihti on vastupidi. > > Samuti mulle n?ib, et Eesti inimene on k?ll ratsionaalne ja p?hjamaine. > Aga ta vajab v?ga suuresti ka ?m?steeriumit?, mis on meie usu kese. Meie > usu kese on Kristus ehk euharistia - paradoks, mis on m?istusega > seletamatu. Seda saab ainult uskuda ja ise usus kogeda. > > Me peame r??kima kiriku ?petusest lihtsas keeles. Aga me ei tohi kaotada > oma m?steeriumit, oma salap?ra, sest selles avaldub tegelikult t?de. > > Another undisclosed contributor answered with a comic of two pictures: > > - > > Christian rebellion in 1990: Son with sunglasses to dad with tie: No, > Dad! I?m going to the cool church where they play electric guitar and wear > shorts! Btw I?m getting rebaptized. > - > > Christian rebellion today: Son with tie to dad with sunglasses: No, > Dad. I?m returning our bloodline to the faith traditions that were observed > and cherished by our ancestors ? traditions your once abandoned in the > fruitless endeavour to make the Gospel palatable to the unspiritual masses. > Btw TobyMac is cringe. > > The work job of the sinoditalgutiim > is > done, but as you can see, there is more work to do. We are not yet there. > Pray for us! > > Luc > > Sharable permalink for this email: > https://hw.saffre-rumma.net/blog/2022/0331_2021/ > -- > sinod mailing list > sinod at lino-framework.org > https://lists.lino-framework.org/mailman/listinfo/sinod > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: